Battlezone 1

I made a deal with the devil... J/K, I made a deal with reaper... sounds the same, doesn't it? hehe

Anyways, I decided to make a 1.5 patch with him, but, of course, there's a catch... I have to make it out of BzE. When reaper first time offered me that, I declined, because I was supposed to accept all BzE code changes and have them in 1.5 patch.

As we all know BzE has some nice code changes, some not so nice and some totally unacceptable. So now reaper and I talked again and he agreed that he will roll back few code changes for me.

1.5 in 1.4 lobby and included Single Player were my limit to even start thinking about it. He agreed, so now we can start our discussion what to change and what to change back. Something that reaper forgot to ask players before he started making BzE (bomber BFT and magger CF don't count as players).

Before someone says; just fix the bugs and leave all the same, take a look at the code changes first, cause reaper won't roll all back, even some silly ones will have to stay. What are priorities for rolling back?

Then think about MDM bug... replacing it with mortar doesn't cover all problems... that makes Grizzly too strong. Removing MDM completely? That leaves an empty place in armory. Any other ideas?

When we are changing MDM, why not change Flash Cannon too...

Hurry with your ideas, I want 1.5 for Christmas.

BzE ChangeLog

Reaper agreed to change those 2.


In BzE that lost sense... with splinter and blast changed it's not needed anymore, and with BDog Grizzly equipped with splinter it's useless. Also NSDF host who sets blasts off will only weaken possible CCA player, not himself. He's not supposed to have blast in the first place.
Toggle can be set only for something that's mutual. Remove it.


I don't like favoring of any unit and I especially don't want to encourage ppl to use silly Stealth Tanks. Make filter for all ships (tank, light tank, rocket tank, turret/lander, scout/fighter, walker, bomber) or no filter at all. If that is too much, I suggest filter for host's ship, if set "On", you have to pick same (family) as host.


Armory doesn't produce weapons, it just keeps them in storage. Buildtime is not needed, remove it.


Stock was 100? NSDF tower has range 200m, with power range 200m, that's 400m. With our visibility at 375 whole strat will be changed. Put it back.


Same as above.


Even average stratters know where you can build something and where you can't. With reduced reticle all will change. No need for that, put it back.


Thump is supposed to make you spin. Put it back.


After rec and fac are gone nothing for pilots in barracks. Them wondering around was also a sing for other player(s) that someone lost a rec.

I want the hud (ammo/health) gauge back to normal colors. (all the reticles too)

Nice to hear Reaper is going to do sth for the stock game...

Besides the already mentionded things i would like to see
the original supply and hangar buildings,
im sry to say but the ones reaper implemented look ugly.

Also i would make sure that it isnt possible to join 1.5 games with
1.4 version because that would bypass its anti cheat effects obviously.

I d say it should be as close to the original as possible,
or plain bz fans wont keep playing it...

regards

Maybe I wasn't clear enough... reaper is just giving me the "bze.exe". He will have to recompile it when I'm done with other changes. It will be then called "bzone.exe" and, with other things, it will represent Bz 1.5 patch.

It will have all good stuff from BzE, like FPS bug fix and more anti-hack measures, so yes it will give MVM to the 1.4. But it will be in the same lobby with 1.4, so when someone won't be able to join 1.5 game he will be easily explained that he needs to upgrade to 1.5.

1.5 will be stock game + BzE bug fixes. I'm 100% positive there's no person who would say no to something like that.

Now open BzE ChangeLog again. Look for sections "BzE 1.0 code changes" and "BzE 1.1 code changes". Those changes are coming in pack with "bze.exe" and our first mission is to isolate silly changes from needed ones, cause reaper agreed only to roll back few, so we need priorities list. I named few, you name yours. If you agree with me, please say with what exactly, cause I don't want to make it look like I'm the only one fighting against BzE/for Bz.

Numbers are showing that BzE is rejected by the community, so even though I believe in future broadband Bz reaper is working on, what we need now is 1.5.

Now, if I'm not reading reaper's changelog wrong, the things Black Dragon and F-16 want back to stock are not code changes, so they are automatically put to stock since I'm the new leader of this project.

Also, be aware that some code changes are not listed, some new were made in meantime and some are not understandable. That last one could be just me.

Focus yourself on unnecessary code changes. Then take a look on what has to be done outside the code. For something to be changed we need strong, unbeatable reason. Like MDM mortar which creates MDM bug for which even BzE has no code fix.

As you can see, I made a new category for 1.5 patch to make it easier to find.

I also moved (and renamed) few polls from BzE here, cause when we were voting on them we thought BzE will be Bz 1.5, and I made few new polls. If you think we need more, let me know. Our goal is to eliminate bugs and need for silly rules. Our goal is no arguing after applying of 1.5 patch, only GG's.

Rejoining is eliminated with "working" /kick.
Spawnkilling in strat is eliminated with respawning in the air.
No scrapmaking, no blasting, no splintering, no RF-ing... What about those?

Be aware that vote without explanation means nothing. This is not anonymous voting, we are here deciding Bz destiny. You don't have to write a book, but you have to say something, explain your vote.

Ah, the BZ lobby has been strangely empty lately...

I've been working on my own BZ mod (with NO MDM, fixed Pak, etc) and was seriously considering starting a discussion thread about some changes I had made (limited to ODFs)
EDIT on 12/19/2008: ODFs, GEOs, VDFs, VXTs, and possibly BZNs.

But this is even better. Better Anti-cheat and FPS fix sounds great to me.

Don't mess with SNIPE. It's fine just the way it is.

This mod should be based on BZ 1.4, NOT BZ 1.3.

Here is my humble opinion:

Four main changes are needed.

1. Remove (or fix) MDM.

When removing MDM from the Armory ODFs, Make it so that it doesn't look like there's something missing.
If it's an Armory with MDM as only item in mortars, just replace "apmdmg" or "spmdmg" with "apmort" or "spmort".

Paste text from apmort.odf to apmdmg.odf and spmdmg.odf. Edit the INFs too. The MDM powerups become regular mortar, which replaces MDM with mortar on DM maps like Battle Arena.

2. E-W Fixed.

Don't know how it's done because I don't have the code, but I know you've accomplished it.

3. FPS/game speed Fixed at 60. (Not 55 or some other arbitrary value)

This will not only fix HIGH FPS, but when I dip down to 30 FPS, it will allow me to move the same speed even with my LOW FPS.
My FPS gets quite low in strat. Also, I'll be able to play SW mode if I want without being faster than others.

4. Better Anti-Cheat.

Not sure if the assets will be encrypted, or if you can simply make CRC much harder (aka impossible) to bypass.

I do not think Mortar makes Grizzly too strong. I played the 2nd NSDF Campaign mission (on hard) with MDM and with regular Mortar. In both cases, it took 6 direct hits to destroy a Pak. So they do about the same damage, except MDM is manual detonation if it doesn't hit something, and you have to hold CTRL to fire multiple.

I even thought about decreasing ammo cost of Mortar to match MDM.

The way I see it, the Grizzly was robbed of its stock weapon strength because of the MDM bug. So by replacing with normal Mortar, we are simply getting that back.

If you insist that it makes Grizzly too strong, experiment with how much damage it does or how big the splash radius is, etc.

Don't downgrade it too much, or it will end up useless.

There are TWO bugs with MDM:

1. Weaker weapons and manual detonation stops working and no credit for kills.
2. Fire MDM and hold mouse, wait a while... then press CTRL while still holding the mouse (barrage bug)

Aside from the 4 main changes, I had some other ideas:

Change #5

Compare avtank.odf with player.odf, svtank.odf, and bvtank.odf.

avtank.odf (and avtamp.odf) have Mortar and Special hardpoint switched. For the sake of consistency,
I think we ought to make all tank ODFs have their weapon hardpoints in the same order: Cannon, Cannon, Mortar, Special. (CCMS)

Also, I think we should modify player.odf so that it's audio clips are the same as avtank.odf, so that if you switch tanks in campaign, and you command the now AI controlled tank to do something, audio messages play just like with tank from factory.

Change #6
The Flash Cannon is too weak. Either remove it or: strengthen it and make it work in multiplayer.

Change #7
playrt.odf use Bobcat (Light Tank) audio. Edit the ODF to be like avrckt.odf, but keep the original weapon configuration, because this rocket tank IS used in the NSDF Campaign. playrt.inf says "Shafter" when it's a Wolverine.

Change #8 Decrease explRadius on xlgtcar.odf so we aren't blinded when being zapped by a boltmine. 0.5 is a good value. 2.0 is stock.

Change #9
Move the SITE Camera on avhrmp.odf to weaponHard3 and put the rocket bombs in 1 and 2. This will prevent the SITE Camera from accidentally wasting ammo in a Death Match.

Change #10
I have many times accidentally built a Barracks when intending to build a Silo when playing as CCA, or when playing a certain mission in NSDF campaign. Look at the order of the build options in avcnst.odf. Change the other constructors to have the items in the same order. I had already done this in my mod.

Change #11
In sprepa.odf, adjust maxHealth from 0 to 150. No more invincible CCA repair.

Change #12
This isn't terribly important, but set maxHealth of ssuser.odf to 250 to match asuser.odf.

Change #13
Change cost of spmagg.odf from 5 to 4 to match cost of apmagg.odf
Change cost of sptagg.odf from 1 to 2 to match cost of aptagg.odf

Change #14

AVI video fix.

I think that's all of the changes that are serious, now for silly ideas:

bvwamp.odf
A Black Dog Sasquatch Walker armed with Dual SP-Stabber for DM!

Add a second blast cannon to svwamp.odf.

Hehe. Why not suggest it?

For strat, I also thought about giving turrets dual mini/chainguns, but that might change strat too much. Perhaps just leave avturr.odf and svturr.odf alone.

Oh, and fix the DM Pak. Fix the typos in svtump.odf so it will have 2 hardpoints and 2 Chainguns.

Oh by the way, I went over INF files again to not majorly modify them, but fix mistakes/typos. Included in this download is all the INF files I have changed, AND a Change Log text file to tell you exactly WHAT I changed in each one.

BattleZone 1.4 INF Corrections

Missing INFs were added, such as avtam2.inf, svtamp.inf, spphan.inf, and renaming bvlntk.inf to bvltnk.inf, the file had the wrong name.

I changed svwamp.inf cost info to 17 to match ODF, but perhaps it should be 12 to match svwalk.odf? I'm sure you'll figure out what to do.

As I said before, these 1.5 polls were initially BzE polls. Reaper announced that he changed something about strat, cause bomber BFT and magger CF told him to do it, something that shouldn't be changed. Then I started recruiting stratters to tell reaper that he's wrong. In most cases reaper was stubborn and he agreed only on a slight change to his already made change to the stock game. On rare occasions, he agreed to put it back to stock.

When you vote you should try to concentrate on stock thing and then state if you think change is needed. Don't comment previous posts too much, cause maybe they were made when BzE change was already done (I can't believe I ever posted that BS under Recycler in BzE/1.5).

I hope you all understand that I won't make a change based on a 10 votes here, so polls result means less than what's said in them. There are many more stratters out there... Also, some are gone (from the game and forums), but they might come back in 1.5. I have to think on them too. I'm not saying that your vote is meaningless, I'm saying that I have more than 1 paramater (polls) which tells me what to change. Every vote helps me in my decission, so don't get discouraged after reading this and post less, post more. Every idea is helpful, even silly one, cause it tells me to leave it stock.
I'm using old BZC polls too, of course, filtered from spam made by bomber BFT, magger CF and those like them. I'm also reading old Google groups posts, where old players posted about Flash problems, Splinter problem etc.

I don't know why are you talking about silo bug, E-W bug, Anti-cheat fix, AVI fix etc., when I posted 2 times in this thread that we are getting BzE.exe with BzE code changes.
No one but F-16 and me commented those code changes, even though I heard you all in the lobby mentioning some of them as bad.

All other possible changes are to be discussed after that. We start from stock and we should end stock as much as possible. As I said before, no need to say you don't like BzE change that isn't in code. It won't be in 1.5. You should only comment those you like so we could try bringing them into 1.5.

Input about missing voices in player.odf and wrong voices in playrt.odf is much appreciated. HAL found few more of those. They are all fixed now.

Deal with the Devil.
I've said over and over again. Reaper is a slippery slope, proceed with caution. Ask yourself this ... What other game do you know that's mod tools aren't released to the public when at least 1 year old ? My best guess is he worked at some point for or on the project and has kept the tools for himself. You may or may not know that most companies make you sign a Non-disclosure agreement. Why he is so secretive about allowing others the tools ?

Why am I being so negative ? well like Spock has seen with his installers. The BZ Club ( Reaper ) can be a vengeful and vindictive place/person. I witnessed attacks on the BZF website from you guessed it , Reaper complaining to my provider about a music file I had there and the copyright infringement it imposed. Trying to shut us down.

Somebody that has lawyer skills and sometime should look into Mr. Reapers side job. I put my money on some programmers among others looking for a lawsuit , if they only knew Reaper was using tools they had a hand in making.

Awesome!

Another voice issue is repairMsg in svrecy.odf

change from
"svrecy9.wav"
to
"svrecyv9.wav"

Then the CCA Recycler will say "Approaching Geyser" when you tell it to go to geyser.

(if you already fixed that, no further comment on CCA Recycler)

I would also like to push for ALL TANKS having their 4 weapon hardpoints in the SAME ORDER.

(I already mentioned this in my other post, but I would like to elaborate here)

Furthermore, the order should be:

Cannon
Cannon
Mortar
Special

Why? Because most tank ODFs have it in that order, and I'm used to it being that way in the campaign.

Change these:

avtank.odf
avtamp.odf

To have hardpoints in same order as:

bvtank.odf
player.odf
svtank.odf

In the campaign with player.odf tank, I fire AT + Mini for a short time at an enemy, then switch weapon and toss a mortar to finish them off. Likewise, I can switch to Thumper, then switch weapon back to AT + Mini to destroy an enemy who has been thumped. Not only is this (in my opinion) the best order for the hardpoints, but I like consistency.

I am thrown off in multiplayer sometimes, because avtank.odf is different than player.odf. I mean to toss a mortar, but I thump, and accidental thump costs quite a bit of ammo.

It's the same thing with constructors. Look at avcnst.odf, and make all the other constructor ODFs have the buildings in the same order. Accidental building of Barracks when I want Silo happens a lot when I'm CCA, and on certain NSDF mission(s).

EDIT:

I thought of a (code?) change I would like in BZ 1.5

I don't have BZ CD, so music doesn't play. I have the BZ music that somebody else ripped from the CD for me. I would like to have BZ 1.5 look for music somewhere besides CD, so that the music can play in BZ with OR without CD. Would be a nice change, no?

Please? Hehe.

1.5 is put on hold because reaper wants to make filter for 911 server only. I'm not going to make a patch just to watch others play from the proxy.

Ah, that's no good...

Maybe we should release our own BZ mod with what changes we can manage without the code changes?

Give it up reaper... we won't play your BzE, and we won't play a "BZ 1.5" if you make stupid changes like blocking other servers.

You don't seem to care about the future of BZ, you simply want control as usual.

Why block new server?

See? You're being a control freak again, and we would rather stay with 1.4 than deal with your senseless crap.

Dirty rotten scoundrel played this well. He never intended to make 1.5, he just wanted to steal our ideas for his silly mod. If it wasn't for the 911 server (which bans fair players and has hacked BZE rooms) it would have been something else.

Just for the record, before we started all this, I asked him to remove Genx's server (hybrid) from 1.5 patch. He refused and said there will be no server filtering. He of course lied.

We lost this hand, but the game is still on. He made a mistake, he never saw my full cards, cause I decided not to call his last raise. The pot he got is nothing comparing to what I almost gave him.

I was afraid of this all the time, but after his confirmation on BZC that he does work on a patch with me I thought there's a chance to really accomplish something. I forgot what kind of man we are dealing with, no integrity. BZC dummies will praise him even more after this prank.

Ah, so 1.5 is currently a hoax.

Nice prank reaper, here's the part where we all laugh at your foolishness...

READY? Here it goes...