Battlezone 1

This is complicated subject... What I want to do is to remove possibility of destroying own Constructor for 6 scrap. But I also want to remove silent scrapmaking - destrying of Silo for 4 scrap. As you can see from the table, there are more scrapmaking buildings/units/production units. Up to +2 sounds like a reasonable gain, but everything above that is too much on big maps with more than 2 players where you can do it endlessly. Constructor and Silo are the easiest to build-destroy-collect-rebuild. To change just those two to +2, to change all that are more than +2 to +2 or something else needs to be done?

I voted yes. Constructor and silo to +2, other stuff as it is.

I would vote to keep it as stock, except fix anything similar that is like a cheat (drops more scrap then it takes to make) also,

Try to fix the whole Barracks bug? Where when you recycle a barracks u dont lose the pilots it had.

Just leave it. The BZ makers did it for a reason, might as well not mess with it.

I think the recyclers should have equal scrap value. Other units over 4 or more should be reduced to 3+. Just look at the cca bomber +5, and the tug +4. The cca factory I would make it eather 4 or the nsdf equal to it.

You make me laugh BlackDragon. xD

If keeping pilots after recycling/killing barracks is a bug, what about rebuilding factory for more pilots?

If you mess with that, I won't like it. I like strat the way it is.

As for scrap-making, just change (lower) how much scrap the constructor drops.

Yes, the reason is that scrap disappears out of game when upgradet units are being destroyed. The Armory is a scrapconsumer, destroying units (attacking) is adding some back to the game. It's a fine ballance I would not touch. I vote no change.
9 out of 10 scrapmakers are basesitters that will find out soon enough that it is a real bad "strategy". I also think that it's ok to be able to mess around in sync-off games by both the kill constructor and the scav/player/silo trick.

Excellent point JonBlund.

I never thought of that.

It should be left as stock.

As Spock mentioned elsewhere a vet player can cheat on new players by making scrap. But mostly it's new players cheating on vets
Anyway I think a destroyed constructor + silo + players tank ( = 32 scrap) is needet to get the game started, especially when players build strong bases and have no offensive power. The 3 units mentioned above is most often what you take with you out in the field, and means a nice progress in the game if it would be destroyed (now the luckiest/better opponent can for example afford 4 extra tanks!)

Gotta run more on this later

Uhm.., Spock suggested only to reduce the scrapcount to +2, = 26 scrap for a destroyed Con, Silo and Tank. No big difference from as it is now - 32 scrap.......

Sync off games:
People may not be in the mood for competing, have only 30 min, start a sync off game and wait there for someone willing to play a real game. Some stratters consequently start their games sync off, etc..

I have had a lot of fun and learned a lot in sync off games. If there's no possibility to make some scrap then sync off games will lose interest?

I don't see the killing Silo for scrap as something to worrie about, it's time consuming. Killing Constructor is easy to spot.

Ok, out of scrap, but still for leaving as it is.

This sure is a complicated issue. I rather see scrapmaking being removed completely, but i do partly understand the programmers' motive for it. They only never had a good thought about it and left it the way it is in haste. My first thought is to remove it all and see upgrading as a risk of losing scrap. I'm not sure if removing positive scrap values of destroyed units would spoil the fun, i doubt it actually. it would encourage sync join on-games and that is a good thing if you ask me without totally ruining sync join off-games. a single weapon upgrade doesnt give any scrap if being destroyed so there is no logical reason to get more scrap out of detroyed vehicles. only the scrap carrying units and buildings are a different story. a destroyed silo can cause a lot of scrap to disappear, but that can also be seen as a part of the risk which adds challenge.


i know this is a bit drastic compared to original values, but wouldnt it mean a more balanced game where the scrap on the map really is the most important. at the moment i would sign for:

0 for all units and buildings except:

+2 scavenger, silo (only because they may contain scrap.., it's still an artificial, unlogical method to not lose all scrap by destroying scavs, but more subtile than original values.

---
+12 cca recycler
+20 nsdf recycler

maybe it's too much of a change and i may be missing a clear view of the game as a whole due lack of routine. but the whole idea of scrapmaking is silly, i think anyone who likes fair strategy games agrees.

this is a very intenssive post

like a usual strater , i think one huge think . the most of the player who lost the recycler , leave and make death scrap . why 20 /12 scrap

the scrap maker is a way to play when you join a already started game , when there no scrap left.

the think is , if exist escrap overther there no need to pay atention to make it , just send to recolect it.

i think the scrap maker must be a solution for the long games or sync off games

soo other think is , if you have 10 gt 10 ofensive 10 defensive , 135 scrap , you dont need to make scrap . but the player who join the game and need to be a chalenge for the enemy must have a way to figth toe to toe.

in the end the idea of this is to upgrade the gameplay of the game , no a way to bug the game.

try to think abouth this

i really like what jonblund said keeping scrap in the game cuz of upgraded units. very true.

still though scrapmaking is anoying and i always give ppl who do a hard time. i do not believe it is fair at all

Remembering the game with GOLEM? I did use scrap-making because there was not much scrap, the enemy had an enormous defense and there was no SNIPER allowed

If this is a SYNC ON game, it is quite newbie like as everyone started off at the same time and no one may join. Even if you get destroyed...you can claim the scrap-maker unbalanced the game.

If this is a SYNC OFF game, it is valid to do it when there is no more scrap and the base(s) are impossible to penetrate with the current units on hand. Once enough is built to cause some havoc, scrap-making can hault as the battle will make plenty of scrap, if the temporary-scrap-maker can pull it off right the scrap will go to him.



When a player leaves and his unit-scrap is still there, it becomes "black scrap" (aka infinite). The AI doesn't see it, it can only be picked up by the player him/herself. If you go this route, you're more likely to be caught and destroyed anyways by someone who doesn't base camp (GOLEM!). This action alone warrants Kill-On-Site if you are found onfoot. Hell, if you go that cheap route why can't the enemy go the cheap route to kill you?


I voted to leave it as is.

Never did like the grey scrap. Not only does the AI ignore it, but it impedes construction. But I stand by what I said before. Leave it as is.